Forum:Killer Capships
Posted by: Capi3101 15:24, August 19, 2011 (UTC) Howdy all, On occasion I've been known to get a little overly excited building a capital ship and build "the ultimate starship", something that will effortlessly annihilate anything it goes up against. Of course, there is no such thing as an ultimate starship - it can always be trumped by a soon-to-be-ex-friend who has an idea that trumps yours. You then trump his, he trumps your new idea, it goes on and on and before you know it you wind up with a 1.6 GPA semester and your dad is hacked off at you. I've totally been there. That said, if you're willing to suspend disbelief and assume the ship's parent government has an infinite supply of cash (much like the U.S. Federal Government) building those kinds of ships can be really fun. I've had a question posted to me regarding such a craft, and I'm opening up this thread for general discussion on the topic. I'll also provide templates for those who want to post their ridiculously uber-designs here; just let me know ahead of time capi ( Capi3101 (talk) 19:41, August 17, 2014 (UTC) ) General Discussion *Designing my own capship and it will kill everything but the downside is the expense after multiplying by 10 for military I have a ship thats over 21 trillion credits with fighters. This thing is a monster it has 42 fighter and bomber wings plus 1200 support ships. this thing is massive and a monster if you want the rest of the stats i can show you. What template do you use for the ship design is it excel? Doc Wade (talk) 13:52, August 17, 2014 (UTC) **Wow - 21 trillion? Given the exchange rate that's about 134% of the gross domestic product of the whole planet. Yeah, let's take a look at this one; I'll put a template table down below this discussion section and you can fill in the data as best you can (if you need me to, I can edit it and make it look nice later). I build my ships in good old Notepad as a rule, though I do use an Excel worksheet to help with calculations. Capi3101 (talk) 19:41, August 17, 2014 (UTC) *Trying to figure out which Missile would make the best anti torpedo ordinance for WC3 era any suggestions. Doc Wade (talk) 14:56, August 17, 2014 (UTC) **That's a tough one. Lemme save the page and give it some thought; going to have to review my rules for shooting down ordnance first. Capi3101 (talk) 19:41, August 17, 2014 (UTC) **I was thinking along the lines of the AR missiles but in the novels it doesnt seem like the missiles take long to lock as they are dedicated point defense anti torpedo ordinanceDoc Wade (talk) 16:31, August 19, 2014 (UTC) So, I've been over the design of the Nimitz-class. Overall, you did a pretty good job with it, though I did note a few things that probably could bear some discussion. Here's the quick list: *You get a Matter/Antimatter Reactor as one of your freebies. *The size of your total hangar space was a little short of what I personally would ordinarily shoot for when I'm designing a carrier. That said, it wasn't that much less and it was still significantly more than the total amount of space all your child craft require based on their volume, so you did good there. *You need to indicate how many of your rooms have triple occupancy going on. I'm assuming those are crew quarters. *I'm not sure what was going on with your original numbers for cargo space. Even adjusting the space for an SC 29 craft down by 10%, you should've still had more that what was there. *Likewise, the HD ratings were off. Here's how that broke down - an SC 29 Heavy Dreadnought starts off with 70/56/70. Class Eight Engine reduced HD and BHD by eight, and 100 cm of armor increases all three ratings by ten. The extra Hangar Bay Module also increases all three ratings by ten, and finally your -50 ECM Module reduces the HD rating (the first one) by fifty. Equipment effects amount to -38/+12/+20, so the HD ratings should be 32/68/90. *Going back through the accessories list, I only counted 58 Weapons Stations and the Shield indicated in the accessory list was unnecessary (capital ships have a reserved spot for the inclusion of a shield), which puts you where you've got room for 4 more accessories. I've triple-checked the weapon stations; if I've got stuff missing, let me know. *The total cost of everything only came up to about 2.32 trillion credits, about an order of magnitude less than what you originally told me. I was wondering if the design was supposed to include a 1/10 Damage Reduction Bonus. I've updated the ship's template below to adjust for problems; you might want to review it in case I made a mistake somewhere. If you want me to provide an itemized list of the cost breakdown or any other piece of data, let me know and I'll get it up here. Capi3101 (talk) 18:32, August 20, 2014 (UTC) *I thought if it was a military craft everything was multiplied by ten for final cost did I miss something or was my math that bad either way thanks for taking a look at it. Crew was assuming the following crew requirements of small craft that made sense in my brain: **Devastator crew 7 1 pilot, 1 copilot/bombardier, 5 gunners **Shrike crew 5 1 pilot, 1 co/bombardier, 3 gunners (according to the manual and in game the shrike had 3 fighter turrets) **Retaliator 2 1 pilot, 1 gunner **Marauder 3 1 pilot, 1 co/bombardier, 1 gunner *added four more carrier systems adjusted price **Ah - you're right. From the Wake-class example in Chapter 7.2, though, it looks like it's just the ship itself that has its price modified; the cost of child craft is added without being modified. So...add four Carrier Systems for an x12, brings the base cost up to 151,939,283,980, then multiply that by ten...multiply that by 1.5...add 2,095,985,012,904...final cost should be 4,375,074,272,604, which I'll put in the cost field. And now I get to review all the craft I've done for Elegy again. The Arcadia-class will be affected too... Capi3101 (talk) 20:24, August 20, 2014 (UTC) **Ok thats where I screwed up I totalled everything including small craft multiplied that 1.5 then multiplied everything by 10. My fault thanks for clearing it up. Doc Wade (talk) 12:08, August 21, 2014 (UTC) ***No problem. I'm satisfied we've got ourselves a ship at this point. Was considering putting up stats for the Kushan Mothership just for the hell of it... Capi3101 (talk) 13:08, August 21, 2014 (UTC) ****that would be fun size class 50 but would need more accessories for building other ships unless you were considering 1 IMM pure chassis class then it would be how many ships could be constructed per IMM and how long would it take. Decisions Decisions.Doc Wade (talk) 14:06, August 21, 2014 (UTC) *****Actually, I did the math yesterday based on the information I found at the Enyclopedia Hiigara site and a couple of side profile shots I found online. Best I can tell based on that data, the bounding box volume of the Mothership is 367,146,726.8 m3, firmly in Size Class 27. Ships in Homeworld are small as a rule - the Kushan Avatar-Heavy Cruiser is only about 400 meters in length. Makes me wonder if that particular universe would require the Fighterdrone chassis I was developing for my next RPG... Capi3101 (talk) 15:26, August 21, 2014 (UTC) ****Looking at the Nimitz she would defiantly make take notice after she kept launching fighters.Doc Wade (talk) 14:06, August 21, 2014 (UTC) ****I was looking at stuff out of BSG dedicated launch tubes would be nice I was thinking sets of 8 would cost about 2000 credits but count as one accessory launching up to 6000 cubic meters worth of small craft at 1 every 5 rounds. Also looking at Dedicated Recovery Decks to be used in conjunction with the Launch Tube system. The Recovery Deck could recover as many fighters as launch tubes every 3 rounds as they are separate systems. The Recovery Deck would cost the same as the launch tubes. What do you think would unbalance a game too much.Doc Wade (talk) 14:06, August 21, 2014 (UTC) *****I considered a system like that when I was giving thought to carriers and how they would work in WCRPG. Ultimately the system I have - a combination of the Carrier Systems modules and the Launch/Recovery rules in Chapters 9.3 and 9.4 of the Core Rules - seemed like the best balance, and incidentally they function pretty much the same as what you've proposed up above (difference is that they are a lot cheaper, have no limitations on the size of the craft launched, and have the same delay rate whether launching or landing. I probably should've bumped up their cost a bit before the game went to print for capships, but what's done is done at this point. Capi3101 (talk) 15:26, August 21, 2014 (UTC) *****the only thing I can think of now would be to add 192 piranhas and 192 marauders 96 each shrike/devastator and add 192 stalker bringing total fighter strength to 50 wings total small craft to 6000 total 4800 fighter/bomber and 1200 support ships Finally had a chance to go over the last two sets of changes made. I did note a few errors and went ahead and corrected them. Capi3101 (talk) 15:27, December 4, 2014 (UTC) ---- I just put another ship together not sure if I did the math right because its coming out to 116,449,127,670,221 credits which is just insane now I did build her the killer ship suspend disbelief page but wanted to get your opinion first. Here's the Itemized List of accessories and everything else except Strength Index Cost 116,449,127,670,221 Victory Class Carrier/ Deep Exploration Longterm deployment vessel Length 3000m Width 1500m Height 1500m (6,750,000,000m3) SC 31 Quarters are 170,000 90,000 Marines/ 75,000 Crew/ 5,000 Passengers (all Suites are 800 cubic meters since they are designed to be Longterm) Cargo 44,000,000m3 (11,250,000 base + 32,750,000 from accomodations) Chassis Very Heavy Dreadnought HD/BHD/FHD base 72/56/72 after accessories 4/58/74 with cloak -21/58/74 Engine 8th class +8 Max Speed 250 (2) Shields 10,000 SHP ( tenth class Shield) Armor 240,000 AHP (100cm Platolum) Accessories:{Ion Engine, Impulse Engine, M/AM Reactor, External Docking Port x2, Akwende Drive} 2 Apprehension Modules, 3 Hospital Modules, 10 Industrial Manipulator Modules, Emergency Stasis Unit, Cloak, ECM (-70), SWAC x2, Repair Module x8, Ramscoop x2, Turboinjector (60%), Phase Shields, Tractor Beam, Back up sensors, back upu communications, Cun Cooler/ Capicitor +408, Shield Regenator 10x, ITTS, Tracking Computer, Capship Systems Adaptor, Hangar Bay, 16 Carrier Systems, 58 Weapon Stations. Weapons Stations all Armored with 10cm Platolum all Guns are full 360 degree Turrets. 32 OCtuple Dust Cannons( 16Port, 16 Starboard), 8 Duodecuple Heavy Flak (4 Forward, 4 Aft), 6 Octuple Offensive Tachyon Cannons, 2 Octuple Heavy Lance Torpedo Hardpoints double Bay each launcher (Foreward 200 Lance) 2 Dual CSM/Skipper Launchers Hardpoint Foreward Bank (25 ASM134,25 Skipper) 6 ELRIR Triple Bay vegintuple Full Turret Launcher. 2 Quad Heavy Tachyon Cannon Special FOR OTS 1/4 General DMG Reduction Modular Design Small Craft 9384 total all fighters outfitted with Platolum Armor and all are Equal to Latest Variants. (Piranha,Tigershark,Wasp,Vindicator,Panther,Vampire,Excalibur,Retaliator,Stalker,Marauder, Intruder, Jaguar 3cm/ Shrike, Devastator, SWACS, Phoenix, Condor, Hercules, Dauntless 7cm All Ordinance mounts can now accept any ordinance appropiate to the era or earlier. 576 F-103E Excalibur quad LO hardpoints x4 All other stats match Latest Nephilim War Model 576 SF-25C Retaliator quad LO Hardpoint x6 Full cloaking Device and akwende drive added 576 EF-95B Stalker full cloaking device 576 F-60B Marauder full cloaking device 576 F-106 D Piranha full cloaking device 576 F/A-105 Tigershark 576 F-110 C Wasp Akwende Drive Added 576 F-108 D Panther (Octuple LO Hard Point x2 2 LO Tracker Hardpoints 2 HO Lancer Light Torpedo Hardpoints) 576 F109 D Vampire (Octuple LO Hard Point x3 Quad LO Hard Point x1 HO Hard Point x2 Full Cloaking Device) 576 TB-81 B Shrike gun turrets Dual Dust Cannons 576 TB-80 B Devastator Gun Turrets upgraded to Dual Dust Cannons Quad Dust Cannons foreward mounted 576 B-7 Dauntless Heavy Bomber Turrets upgraded to quad Dust Cannons Third turret added to aft facing quad Dust Cannons Forward Narrow 576 Vindicator Bombers with quad Dust Cannon Rear Turret Heavy Ordinance Rack changed to Quad. 576 HF-95A Jaguar Heavy Fighter added two Quad Light Ordinance Racks ELRIR Guns Tachyon Heavy Long Range 3/4/70 576 F/A 43 Intruder Medium Fighter added two Quad Light Ordinance Racks 360 Hercules B Landing Craft Gun Sponson x4 Dual Dust Cannon ( Foreward x1, Portside x1, Starboard x1, Aft x1) Gun Turret x4 Dual Dust Cannon 360 degrees Dual Light Ordinance Hardpoints x12 AR-C(1 missile= 50 submunitions) capacity 250 marines new total cargo 114.6 cubic meters 300 SAR-13 Phoenix Shuttles ( 2 Crew 60 airplane seats, 60 crew bunks) 168 cubic meters cargo 600 SAR-23 Condor Multi-Purpose Shuttle (60 Passengers 3 Crew) 60 SR-51 Seahawk SWACS Craft On the Condor and Phoenix Shuttles all I did was worked out the Math laid out in chapter 6 on dtermining accomodation and cargo rather than just go off the chart was just curious and I didn't have to add anything there it was already there. Did the Same with the Hercules LC. Doc Wade (talk) 02:35, June 14, 2015 (UTC) *Alright, I'll begin the analysis of this ship when I get a chance. 116 trillion does seem quite expensive - unless of course you're designing a Culture GSV... Capi3101 (talk) 15:37, June 15, 2015 (UTC) **Where exactly did you get your numbers for the accommodations and cargo capacities? Base values for a Size Class 31 craft are 81,920,000 m3 for accommodations and 1,638,400 m3 for cargo - the second of which is nowhere near the 11,250,000 you've put down for the base value. And if you divide 81,920,000 by 800, you wind up with 102,400 - far fewer "Luxury Suites" than you've indicated unless you've got folks stacked up two or three to a room (which you need to indicate). I'm also confused on your guns; I'm assuming when you say they're all armored 360° turrets, you're referring to the ones for which you haven't specified a firing arc. The whole analysis is going to take a while - it's the sort of thing that happens when you modify nearly every small craft the ship is designed to carry. I'll work on it off and on when I can. Capi3101 (talk) 17:58, June 15, 2015 (UTC) **I took the Figures 3000*1500*1500 to get the bounding box volume of 675,000,000 divided that by 6 to get 112,500,000 multiplied that by .15 to get 168750000 divide that by 800 to get 210937.5 took 170,000 put the rest into cargo. Doc Wade (talk) 18:52, June 15, 2015 (UTC) **Ah, okay - so a direct calculation from the bounding box, and you used 15% of the volume for base accommodations and 1% for base cargo value. Gotcha. I'm getting different numbers on the HD ratings - I've got the base values of 72/56/72 for a Very Heavy Dreadnought, +10 all to all three ratings for the Armor, -8 for HD/BHD (but not FHD) for the Engines and -70 HD for the ECM Module, bringing the values to 04/58/82, and the values while cloaked to 00/58/57 (technically the -21 for HD is correct, but the ship could still be hit with a lucky natural 00, and the cloak does affect FHD). Do you have a registry number and/or design programme for the class yet? Capi3101 (talk) 16:38, June 17, 2015 (UTC) Nimitz an original design contributed by Doc Wade Designed to be the ultimate behind-the-lines guerrilla fighter, the Nimitz-class took all lessons learned from fighting the Kilrathi and Nephilim and put them into a vessel that could carry out any mission from interdiction anti-piracy to a full-fledged invasion of a planet with two complete TCMC Divisions aboard. When engaged by enemy forces the Nimitz initial reaction will be to retreat from superior forces and launch a skipper cruise missile strike on enemy forces. Once that is completed the carrier will begin hit and run raids from hiding with cloaked Marauder bombers with cloaked Excalibur escorts then the carrier can begin standard carrier operations with other vessels. As most of the crew of the vessel is tied up with the airwing it was determined that main route for evacuation should it be needed will be the shuttles so the crew has the best chance for survival.